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You are here: Home / Cars and motorcycles / How we bought our new car

How we bought our new car

by jlcollinsnh 66 Comments

Steve 2.0

A few weeks ago, in the post Why we bought a brand new car, I shamelessly teased you all with this…

 “…and (gasp!) we even had to take a loan to do it.” 

And…

“…we didn’t buy it from the dealer offering the lowest price, who happened to also be the one closest to us.”

What better time to explain those mysteries, and our buying process, than this Thanksgiving Day?*

Separating the selection and buying processes

While buying a new car is now a much better experience than it was in the “bad old days”, it is still a bit of a hassle. The key to making it as painless as possible is to separate the selection process from the actual buying process.

Our Selection Process

Since we have loved our current Forester, buying another was the default option. I began by researching the new ones on-line and in Consumer Reports, looking at a few things that were important to us: Comfort, visibly, safety, roominess, price, etc. We compared Foresters to similar models, and we gave some thought as to whether we wanted an entirely different type of vehicle altogether.

Once the Forester passed muster on these considerations, we went to a dealer for a test drive, keeping those in mind along with the criticisms we’d read about. 

The biggest of those is that, the Forester is slow. At this point in my life, I am a little amazed at how little this matters to me. But I decided to check out the numbers anyway:

0 to 60, takes ~8.7 seconds

The quarter mile, about 17.3 seconds

To put this in perspective, when I was in high school, one of the very fastest cars you could buy was this:

1967 GTX

The 1967 Plymouth GTX with the 440 engine did 0-60 in 6.5 and the quarter in 15.2. My pal David, who worked in the same Jewel Foods Store as I did, bought himself brand new a red one just like the picture. (His parents were going to pay for his college)

I bought college instead, but I lusted for it then. Still do, in case you are wondering what to get me for Christmas. (Red 1967 with the 440 mint only please)

Anyway, in those formative years of mine, anything that could run 0-60 in under nine seconds was considered pretty quick. So now, in my old age, 8.7 will be just fine, thanks.

Leaving that little bit of nostalgia and returning to the task at hand, this is important:

Be sure to separate your test drive from the buying process.

You are going to want to go home and think about the car after having driven it and you are going to want to have several dealers competing for your business, not just the one where you happen to test drive the car. We, for instance, test drove the Forester last spring, just before we left for 5 months in Europe. No chance of being seduced into buying then, and LOTS of time to think it over.

Our test drive confirmed that a new Forester would be the car for us. But had it not, we would have gone back to our research and from there test driven others until we found the right one.

Our Buying Process

Once we returned to Kibanda from Europe in early October, we began actively looking to buy the new Forester. Since we would be buying in Wisconsin, where we happened to be, and registering the car in South Dakota where we are residents, I called our South Dakota county office to find out how to do this and what paperwork to send them.

Next, using the Subaru website, I found the five dealers close enough that we would be willing to travel to them to pick up a car. BTW, there is no need to buy a car from the dealership where you plan to have it serviced. Any dealership service department will be thrilled to have your business. With our nomadic life, Steve 2.0 will very likely receive any needed attention from Subaru dealers scattered across the US. He will probably never see the dealer we bought him from ever again.

Once I had the dealership names I went to their websites and sent them each this email:

I’m interested in buying a 2020 Subaru Forester standard model with the Crystal White Pearl exterior as soon as possible at the lowest possible price and am contacting several local dealers.
 
Subaru’s website…
 
https://www.subaru.com/vehicles/forester/index.html/FOR-compare-wrapper-modal
 
…says this model is:
 
$24,495
    1,010 destination and delivery
$25,505 total
 
Please note I am not interested in any optional features.
 
Please quote me your very best out the door (including tax, title, and licensing) price and let me know when it can be available for purchase.
 
Thank you!
 
With this initial contact you want to be sure to avoid providing your phone number. You want the initial conversations to be though email. One dealer site had the phone number as a required field. You could just put in a phony number. I put in the correct number and then just ignored their call when it came. Shortly thereafter, they emailed.
 
Having gone thru the process, I would modify that email to this:
 
I’m interested in buying a 2020 Subaru Forester standard model with the Crystal White Pearl exterior as soon as possible at the lowest possible price and am contacting several local dealers.
 
Subaru’s website…
 
https://www.subaru.com/vehicles/forester/index.html/FOR-compare-wrapper-modal
 
…says this model is:
 
$24,495
   $1,010 destination and delivery
$25,505 total
 
Please note I am not interested in any optional features.
 
Please quote me your very best out the door (including tax, title, and licensing) price as follows…
 
MSRP: $25,505
discount amount:
sub-total:
 
service fee: 
License fee:
 
Total:
 
…and let me know when it can be available for purchase.
 
Thank you!
 

I would have used that revised email to help standardize the responses a bit, although you should be prepared for dealers not responding as you might hope. This is a process that is good for you and not so much for them. 

In my case, four responded and one didn’t bother. Of the four that did, three failed to answer my questions and instead asked questions of their own and encouraged me to come in to talk. Only one, Jackie, attempted to answer my questions directly. The others, though a series of emails, did so slowly and reluctantly.

Turns out, 2020 Subaru Forester standard models with no options are rarer than baptized rattlesnakes around these parts. While a couple of dealers were willing to order one, delivery times were 8-12 weeks, long past when we would be on our way to Colorado, New Mexico and Arizona for the winter. The only alternative, was to select from among the available base Foresters with minimal options added. This, of course, made price comparisons slightly more difficult, but nothing unmanageable. It also meant evaluating the value, if any, of the options on a given car. 

Eventually, I narrowed my dealership choices to two and took the conversation to the next level and called them. I kept email communication open with the other two just in case the first two disappointed me.

Jackie continued to impress. She was experienced, straight forward and helpful, and her pricing was much better than the others. Plus, as we talked, I became more comfortable with my sense of the dealership behind her. This is important. You can have a great salesperson, but come time to sign the papers you’ll be dealing with the dealership management.

In the end, she managed to find a Forester with only alloy wheels and a roof rack added for an addition $600. Not too bad.

But, Jackie’s dealership was one of the least “geographically desirable.”

Nick, the other person I chose to call, had the most “geographically desirable” location. As he did in the emails, on the phone he struck me as young and probably new to the business. But he was helpful and trying hard. However, his initial price was clearly an opening bid and way too high.

When he got back to me, he said, “My manager says you have to come in to discuss pricing further.”

“Well, Nick,” I said, “that’s not going to happen. Seems your dealership doesn’t want to do business the way I want to do business and that’s entirely their choice. Thanks for your efforts and I wish you all the best.”

There is nothing to be gained in trying to force a person or organization to do business in the way you wish. Just move on to the others who will, and who do so willingly.

“Can I get back to you?”

“Of course,” I said. But I hung up mentally scratching them off my list.

However, the next day Nick was back. He had found a car with the alloy wheel and roof rack package and a package consisting of floor mats, cargo cover, cargo tray and the like for a few hundred dollars more. His price was slightly less than Jackie’s, even with the extra stuff.

By now, unless you remember my opening paragraphs, you are probably thinking Nick got the business. After all, he had the lower price with extra stuff and the more convenient location. Plus, I liked him. But, I had developed concerns about the dealership behind him.

Meanwhile, Jackie had impressed me from the beginning and had offered a very competitive price. She had been easy, and a pleasure, to deal with from the start and I had developed the sense that her dealership would be too.

It wasn’t an easy call, but Jackie got the business. I reminded myself I wasn’t just looking for the lowest price, but for a fair deal that would be as painless as possible. As I say in my Manifesto…

“It’s OK for the other guy to get a deal, too.”

We struck the deal on the phone, put down $500 on our credit card and set up a time to pick up the car. She told us they would accept up to $5000 on the card and I told her we’d add the other $4500 when we got there and cut a check for the rest.

Used properly – as in never carrying a balance and paying interest – credit cards are wonderful tools: Useful reward points and very convenient. I would have put the whole amount on mine if they’d have let me.

“BTW,” I said, “please ask them not to put dealer stickers on the car.”

I hate dealer stickers on my car. If you want me to be a rolling ad for you, let’s first discuss how much you are willing to pay. 

“We never do,” she said. Another point for the dealership.

Picking up Steve 2.0

So far, the buying process had gone mostly as I expected. A bit more cumbersome than I had hoped, and a bit more time consuming, but for the most part not bad. But then we went to pick up the new car.

Fortunately, Jackie was every bit as pleasant and easy to work with in person as on the phone. The new car was there and ready to go. We looked it over carefully and took it for a test drive. She sat with us and walked us through the various controls and features. We went inside to do the paperwork, figuring we would be on our way shortly.

It was not to be. I blame myself mostly.

We charged the $4500 to our credit card and wrote the check for the balance. She took it to the office and shortly came back with Mike, and he had bad news:

They couldn’t accept the check.

Now I had bought cars from dealers before with checks, no problem. But this time was different:

  • We were SD residents buying in WI.
  • We were writing the check on our SD bank.
  • We don’t live in WI and so don’t have a WI bank account.
  • Our driver’s licenses have an old address on them that, of course, didn’t match the address we had put on the paperwork. (SD doesn’t require you to get a new license when your address changes, so we never bothered).

Not surprisingly, in hindsight, this set off all kinds of scam alarm bells with their accounting department.

But Mike also came back with a solution: We could just borrow the balance.

It was easy, simple and elegant way around the issue. Although it did strike me as odd that they would say in effect “we won’t take your check but we will just give (loan) you the money.” Of course, the risk of the loan was on the bank making it, not them. So there you go.

Anyway, this is why I blame myself for this becoming a very long process. I just didn’t want to take the loan. Irrational, I know. It cost nothing to initiate, we could just pay it off immediately and Mike even offered an additional discount on the car. But I have never had a car payment, ever.

So instead of accepting the obvious and easy solution, I dragged us through every alternative I could think of. I even got the bank on the phone to verify with Mike that the money was sitting there. Mike ran all my ideas past accounting, but they wouldn’t budge. And I get that.

Thankfully, I had never gotten around to freezing our credit reports (as is a very good idea generally). A bit of odd good luck that.

So, now for the first time in my life, I have a car loan. At 2.9%, not a bad one at that. Although we’ll still pay it off.

The numbers

If you are like me, you’ve been wondering what this deal actually looked like once the dust settled. You want numbers! Here you go:

  • $25,505 (includes destination charge of $1010)
  •      $600 alloy wheel/roof rack package
  • $26,105 MSRP
  •      $219 document fee
  •  -$2500 discount
  •     -$194 addition discount from Mike
  • $23,630 Total

Of course, there are also title, registration and tax. Because we are buying in WI but registering in SD, this is a bit complex and we are still working thru it. So far those look like this:

  • $174.50 WI Title & temp plate
  •  $10 SD Title 
  • $945 SD 4% tax

Of course there will also be a SD plate fee, but not sure what that will be yet. So, so far…

Grand total = $24,760

Epilogue

We’ve had Steve 2.0 just about a month now and have driven him ~500 miles.

Even as the base model, he is a lot fancier than our 2007 and we are still sorting out how everything works. One thing I really like is the back up camera, although took some mental calibration to sort out the image and the real world.

There is also a bit of autonomous driving tech in place, including a feature that tracks the car in its lane and though curves. It is very weird to feel the steering wheel move by itself under your hands. But I think I’m going to like this feature, especially on our long road trips.

The visibility is great, he handles smoothly and the steering is precise and nicely weighted. The acceleration is fine too. For us anyway.

The ride is comfortable and the cabin is quiet.

So far, he is flawless in build quality. Most new cars have at least a couple of small imperfections that require a return to the dealer to sort out. Given the incredible complexity of modern cars, I find the fact that this one doesn’t pretty remarkable. But then, as I recall, the original Steve didn’t either.

Speaking of Steve, for those of you interested, he has gone on to his new owners and this is the tale of what he cost over the years.

***************************************************

Is genius the product of inspiration or perspiration or something else?

The Bus Ticket Theory of Genius

***************************************************

What is going to live to be 5 thousand trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion years old? This guy…

Our Universe

After that…

“Time becomes meaningless.”

A very cool video, if you are into things like this.

*****************************************************

Creepy or cool?

******************************************************

*Happy Thanksgiving!!

*****************************************************

 

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  • NewRetirement offers cool tools to help guide you in answering the question: Do I have enough money to retire? And getting started is free. Sign up and you will be offered two paths into their retirement planner. I was also on their podcast and you can check that out here:Video version, Podcast version.
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  • Vanguard.com

Filed Under: Cars and motorcycles

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Comments

  1. wendy says

    November 28, 2019 at 2:15 pm

    Happy Thanksgiving to you all!

    May Steve 2.0 give many wonderful years of service.

    I totally get why you went with the dealer you chose. Lowest price does not always represent the fully loaded ‘cost’ of the relationship.
    When I was trying to buy my very first car back in the early 90s (after college & after I had secured a full-time job), I walked out of two different dealerships that somehow couldn’t grasp that my Dad/husband/brother wasn’t there to buy the car/negotiate for me.

    Reply
    • jlcollinsnh says

      November 28, 2019 at 4:27 pm

      And to your and yours, Wendy!

      “…dealerships that somehow couldn’t grasp that my Dad/husband/brother wasn’t there to buy the car/negotiate for me.”

      This just amazes, but doesn’t surprise, me. You’d think by now… 😉

      Reply
  2. Trever Kudrna says

    November 28, 2019 at 2:56 pm

    Thanks for outlining your process. I’ve bought several cars over the years and one other option that would have solved your problem would have been to put the entire balance on your credit card. The policy is always some arbitrary low amount they will ‘allow’, but, once you get to the finance guy they will tell you they can’t legally prevent you from paying with the card. This has been my experience in at least a half dozen instances at least. I think when they sign up with visa or whoever, they aren’t allowed to restrict you like that. We have paid by cc on 3 vehicles in the last 2 years. (We also paid the balance in full the next statement and reaped the miles/points in the process. Hope this helps someone out there. Thanks as always for your blog and posts, I’ve enjoyed them immensely since stumbling on to them a few years ago.

    Reply
    • jlcollinsnh says

      November 28, 2019 at 4:33 pm

      Hi Trevor…

      Putting it all on the card was something I pushed more than once. I’d be curious as to the details of those times you did.

      Basically, they were unwilling to pay the 3% fee the credit card would have charged, and so was I. Clearly they wanted the deal to happen, maybe more than I did. But sometimes the numbers get to close to work.

      “…they can’t legally prevent you from paying with the card.” Are you sure this is the law?

      Even if it is, I imagine there is no law that compels them to sell anyone a car. Certainly not at a discount.

      Still, I would have loved this option. Woo Hoo! Mega reward points! 🙂

      Reply
      • Trever says

        November 28, 2019 at 7:16 pm

        I’m not sure about the law.

        However, the last time we did this, about a month ago, the finance guy said something to the effect of, “I can’t legally tell you that you can’t pay with a card”

        Reply
  3. RobDiesel says

    November 28, 2019 at 3:12 pm

    We bought a Prius for a very beneficial 0% financing, and it most certainly was worth putting the $5000 down on the credit card.

    We had an amusing tale in getting the car. The SO goes in, loves the car, gets the car. She knows this, so she asked me to do the legwork for a good deal and with the features she wanted.

    I found the car. Opined on the color and sun roof requirements, so that became “no sunroof” and white instead of a too-dark gunmetal gray.

    With that narrowed down, I walk in to the local dealer where she bought her prior Prius from. I figured I’d start there for a potential loyalty bonus. They said they’d LOVE to get me in a green one, of which they had plenty.

    When I relayed that I am *only* looking for a white one with the “4” accessory package and wouldn’t pay for bullshit like nitrogen in the tires, etc. they said ok, let’s look in inventory.

    They found one they could have delivered in a couple of days, so I asked what the OTT price would be.
    This is where it stopped. “Bring your SO in and we’ll do some paperwork”.
    No, if she wants to buy anything, she wants to know the price first. It goes for purses, it goes for restaurants. Give me a price and she’ll decide if it’s worth coming in for.
    “Well, is she trading in a car?”

    That’s academic. I want the OTT price on yours.

    They refused. I left.

    Another dealer, 20 miles away, gave us a price over the internet. I did have to reiterate “OTT”, at which point they modified the quote to include it. Other than that, the price was FAR better than anything else, and with no haggling. It was also right where I expected it to be given invoices and the like.

    I even called the dealership from work and asked what that same VIN car would cost – and the floor sales guy couldn’t touch the internet price.

    So in we go. The fleet guy was quick, experienced, polite and insisted we drive that specific car to ensure it was all we expected it to be, and then we had to decline the warranty and add-on bullshit before throwing $5K on a card (paid off before interest accrued) and assumed the 0% loan.

    Red McComb’s Toyota still leaves a sour taste in my mouth, and then I found they have plenty other reputation issues in San Antonio, so I’m glad they scared me off.

    My SO still goes to the farther dealership for all the service due to it.

    Anyway, glad to hear the tale of your purchase. It’s sometimes pretty advantageous to take their loan (for a discount) and then refi the loan with your own credit union for a better rate – or better yet, just pay it off.

    Reply
    • jlcollinsnh says

      November 28, 2019 at 4:40 pm

      Thanks for sharing Rob.

      These stories, again, amaze but don’t surprise me.

      Dealerships seem to go out of their way to make buying difficult and unpleasant. You have to wonder why.

      I assume there is some benefit in this behavior, but try as I might what it might be eludes me.

      If any of my readers have worked at these kind of dealerships and have some insight, I’d love to hear it. 🙂

      Reply
  4. Sue E Reynolds says

    November 28, 2019 at 6:46 pm

    My oh my, how I loved those GTX’s. Followed only by my crazy love for the Pontiac Goat. The sound of those engines was heavenly.

    Reply
    • jlcollinsnh says

      November 29, 2019 at 10:07 am

      Careful there, Sue. You’re dating yourself. 🙂

      It was a magical time, certainly for cars. Even the ordinary ones like my 1960 Falcon and 1965 Belvedere with the slant-6.

      Reply
  5. Dianne Freeze says

    November 28, 2019 at 7:36 pm

    I have had all these same experiences and have had good luck emailing as well. At the moment I have a car loan even though I could pay it off. My logic is that if I think I can make more money keeping my money in the market than what my loan is than why not? So in your case greater than 2.9%. I know it is not a sure thing. Just curious your opinion.

    Reply
    • jlcollinsnh says

      November 29, 2019 at 10:11 am

      That is the question:

      Take the guaranteed 2.9% return in paying off the loan behind door #1?
      Or the unknown but possibly higher (or lower, maybe even negative) return behind door #2? 😉

      Reply
  6. Luke says

    November 28, 2019 at 10:16 pm

    I had no idea you lived in SD.

    Reply
    • jlcollinsnh says

      November 29, 2019 at 10:12 am

      But then, why would you? 🙂

      Reply
      • Lucas Peterson says

        November 29, 2019 at 2:00 pm

        I’m from west river but live east river now.

        Reply
  7. Zach says

    November 28, 2019 at 10:43 pm

    A good breakdown of the process and some useful tips! Why did you buy new though? It seems so anti- FIRE!

    Reply
    • jlcollinsnh says

      November 29, 2019 at 10:14 am

      Hmmmm…

      I should write a post about that.

      Oh, wait…

      https://jlcollinsnh.com/2019/11/06/why-we-bought-a-brand-new-car/

      😉

      Reply
  8. Donald says

    November 29, 2019 at 5:13 am

    There is nothing wrong with buying a new car as long as you drive for long time, than depreciation is smaller factor and you get piece of mind and warranty.

    I bought used car right off college and it was headache and had to sell it at loss and after that I bought brand new Honda Fit. Haven’t had a single problem and it is going strong for 5 years. Looking to ride this 10 more years 🙂

    Reply
  9. Andrew says

    November 29, 2019 at 7:04 am

    Congratulations on your purchase. I’m not surprised at the difficulty you had. I am surprised that any of the dealers replied to you at all. The demand for Subarus significantly outstrips supply, at least in my area (Ann Arbor, Michigan). A few years back my Subaru was totaled in an accident. After several months, I couldn’t get by without a car, so I tried to buy a used Subaru. Every decent used one (i.e. without air bag deployment accidents in its history) was gone within days, and for as much as 2/3 the price of a new one anyway, even being 10-12 years old. If it was advertised on a Wednesday, Saturday was too late. New Subarus at the local dealership were going for $2,000 over MSRP. Finally I borrowed a car and went to Ohio with my wife to buy a new Impreza for “only” the suggested MSRP and was happy to do it.

    Reply
    • jlcollinsnh says

      November 29, 2019 at 10:03 am

      Seemed to be plenty of new Subarus around and four out of five of the dealers I reached out to responded. All were willing to discount.

      Used Subarus seem to be harder to find and they do hold their value well. Another reason buying new for these is very competitive with buying one a couple of years old.

      Reply
  10. Lordosis says

    November 29, 2019 at 7:48 am

    I almost want to buy a new car just to try this method!

    What did you do with the older car? Sell on your own? Some other purpose? I know you can get more selling it on your own then trading it in but does it outweigh the savings in sales tax and hassle?

    Thanks for sharing!
    Happy Thanksgiving!

    Reply
    • jlcollinsnh says

      November 29, 2019 at 9:58 am

      We sold it ourselves. Turns out one of my readers bought it for her son.

      Trading it is easier, but the offers are very low. So the corresponding tax savings is also very low. Especially for an older boy like Steve that they will likely just send to auction. We wanted him to go to a good home.

      Reply
  11. LUIS says

    November 29, 2019 at 10:58 am

    Hi JL,

    Thanks for sharing and I’ll definitely use your method of contacting a dealer via email when/if we need to buy another car.

    Since you are living in SD, you’re not too far from Bozeman, MT. Therefore, let me know if you pass through the area and we’ll have some good grass-fed beef steaks.

    Semper FI,
    Luis

    Reply
    • jlcollinsnh says

      November 29, 2019 at 12:30 pm

      Since we are mostly nomadic these days, we aren’t actually in SD all that much.

      But that increases our chances of being in other places, like Bozeman. So, could be someday. 🙂

      Thanks for the invite!

      Reply
  12. Mrs. Wow says

    November 29, 2019 at 12:26 pm

    I have loved following your car buying journey. We got a new-to-us car a few years ago through the now extinct site beepi.com. Once we had narrowed down exactly what we wanted, the buying process was super easy. They delivered the car directly to our door (complete with a bow of our color choosing), paperwork took all of 10 minutes, and we were able to pay with credit card. Good thing we planned a few new cards that had spending limits to meet to arrive right as we bought the car.

    I must admit going from a 2007 Jetta to a 2016 Madza CX5 was like leap years into the future for technology. I agree having a backup camera is like magic. And I love the lane-assist that lights up/beeps at you if there is a car in your blind spot. Being that my car was my office when I was working, a few advancements in technology really made a world of difference on the road.

    Congrats on the new addition! Enjoy winter in the west! We might be traveling through there come January.

    Reply
    • jlcollinsnh says

      November 29, 2019 at 12:32 pm

      Glad you’ve liked them, Mrs. WOW!

      Right now we plan to be in CO thru January and then again around April. Would be very cool to see you guys. 🙂

      Reply
  13. Kim Edwards says

    November 30, 2019 at 11:54 am

    I love this article Jim. I’m getting ready to buy a new car for the first time in 23 years….A lot of this I’m doing/have done, but the email letter is amazing. I hadn’t thought to take that approach. I’ll definitely be doing exactly what you did. Brilliant. And Happy Thanksgiving.

    Reply
    • jlcollinsnh says

      November 30, 2019 at 3:56 pm

      Thanks Kim…

      …glad you liked it.

      Good luck in your new car search!

      Let us know how it goes.

      Reply
  14. Bruce says

    December 1, 2019 at 5:44 pm

    JL,

    Having retired from the car business and being a finance manager for the last 20 of those years, it was interesting to read your post on buying a car.

    Your system of separating the selection process from the buying process is wise. Researching and test driving the vehicle(s) you are considering is very important. I have seen cases where people have regretted their purchase of a vehicle and then turned around and traded it in right away for a different vehicle at the cost of thousands and thousands of dollars. It is extremely important to select the right vehicle the first time!

    When it comes to buying the vehicle, it should be exciting to buy a new (or new to you) vehicle. However, keeping your emotions in check during the buying (business) process will likely save you money. Sending an email to multiple dealerships in the format you suggested is a great idea.

    The dealerships and owners I worked for were all respected in their communities by their customers, employees, peers and the manufacturers. That aside, here’s some insight on some of the hurdles you seemed to have run across:

    As you experienced, some stores prefer not to do business through emails. Some dealerships may view doing business this way as a race to the bottom on price or recognize that many car buyers will simply take the lowest price and ask their local dealership to match or beat the price. Dealerships prefer you come into the store. You told the salesperson Nick you were not going to the dealership to do business that way and they didn’t earn your business. You are in the driver seat!

    Regarding the use of a credit card, there are a number of dynamics involved. Most dealerships are trying to accommodate multiple parties and have a policy in place. The dealer you purchased from limited the total amount to $5000 most likely as the fee charged to them by the credit card processor (normally 2% or 3%) can quickly eat into any profits on the sale. From the finance companies perspective (if you took out a loan on the vehicle), the customer down payment on a credit card is borrowed money. You may pay off the card balance right away, but it is a borrowed down payment.

    Out of state checks are taboo at many dealerships and they will not accept them. If the check bounces, the car they delivered and the customer are in another state that may have different laws. It can be very time consuming and frustrating to resolve the issue. If the money part doesn’t get resolved, the vehicle that now has miles on it must be returned or picked up from out of state.

    I’m curious if the dealership you purchased from suggested you initiate a wire transfer from your bank in South Dakota. If the transfer is done early enough in the business day, it normally takes a few hours for the transfer to show up in the dealership account. The dealerships I worked for handled out of state “cash” transactions via wire transfer. Banks charge varying fees, but the fee to their customer is around $25.

    In May I purchased a 2019 Subaru Outback (Susy), to replace a 2002 Outback (Sue). Looks like we both love our Subaru’s!
    Enjoy your new car!!

    Bruce

    Reply
    • jlcollinsnh says

      December 2, 2019 at 2:59 pm

      Thanks Bruce…

      Your comments match my experience.

      Nope, they never suggested the wire transfer and it didn’t occur to me either.

      Regarding accepting credit cards and for how much, I gather the dealership is free to set whatever policy they wish? There is no law requiring that they accept them, right?

      Hope you have many great years with Susy!

      Reply
      • Ferd says

        December 2, 2019 at 4:11 pm

        Maybe the reason they never offered the wire transfer is that they had a financial incentive not to do it? When I bought a (used) car at the dealership here in Canada, they were actually quite surprised (and disappointed) that we were going to pay cash. The dealership earned unbeknownst to us a 500$ reference fee from the lender. They offered a free remote car starter or rustproofing for us to take the loan, which we then repaid the following month. Could be another negotiation tactic to use!

        Reply
        • jlcollinsnh says

          December 2, 2019 at 5:12 pm

          That makes a lot of sense, Ferd.

          It might also explain why they were so ready to give me an extra discount.

          Reply
      • Bruce says

        December 2, 2019 at 6:38 pm

        JL,

        You are correct, the dealership can set their own policy regarding the acceptance of credit cards and there is no law I’m aware of requiring them to accept credit cards.

        Reply
  15. Nat says

    December 2, 2019 at 12:14 am

    Hi JL,

    Great to get your full car buying story. I bought a new 2018 Crosstrek last year (since used ones that are a “good” deal don’t seem to exist) and also had good luck with negotiating by email up front. First, I used a site like Edmunds to find the actual dealer cost (invoice cost minus holdback) and any incentives or rebates that the manufacturer was offering. (None from Subaru at that time.) I added 3% profit to the actual dealer cost (recreational spreadsheeting is helpful for all of this!) to give me a fair profit target to shoot for with the dealers. I then used this template for the email negotiation:

    https://www.autocheatsheet.com/negotiate/negotiate-with-car-dealerships-email.html

    One dealer had a great price to begin with and then was very willing to negotiate with me to win my business. Once they offered their best price (about $300 below my target), I asked if they could waive the $150 “document” fee, which they were not able to do, but they did reduce it to only $50. I got them to send me an out the door price with all the fees and such broken down, then showed up at the dealership the next day, test drove the car, and took it home. I definitely recommend getting all of the price negotiation out of the way in advance over email, as showing up at the dealer to buy was basically zero pressure and zero stress.

    PS: Love the blog and book, thanks for all the work you do! Your writing was my main inspiration when I changed tack from house hunting to financial independence about six months ago, and your explanations and advice have been incredibly useful for getting on my way!

    Reply
    • jlcollinsnh says

      December 2, 2019 at 5:09 pm

      Thanks for the very kind words, Nat…

      …and for sharing your story.

      Glad you liked the post!

      Reply
  16. Sara says

    December 2, 2019 at 2:39 pm

    Thanks for explaining. You reminded me of my own new truck buying process. It appears I was much luckier. I was looking for a newer truck than the one I had to pull my camper. I had specific specs ( Chevy Silverado 1500 5.3L engine 4WD). I couldn’t find a used one any better than a new price. I did contact several dealerships in my area. They did want me to come in to test drive. I responded with, “Why do I need to test drive the truck? You aren’t going to talk me out of what I want.” My brother who is a mechanic in the state north of me calls me. There is one in their dealership lot, for less than I wanted to pay because of end of year clearance deals. Two employees drove South 180 miles with the truck . I signed a couple papers in my dinning room. They return with my personal check.

    Reply
    • jlcollinsnh says

      December 2, 2019 at 5:11 pm

      Great story, Sara…

      …glad it worked out so well 🙂

      Reply
  17. Ramona says

    December 2, 2019 at 5:05 pm

    Hey, who cares you got it new and took a loan? Are you happy with your choice? Is Steve 2.0 giving you joy? Now that’s what matters.

    I’ve done the new car with a loan thing 12 years ago. It was OK back then, the car served me for years and it still runs great after this time. Right now it stays unused, because we immigrated. Here we got a cheap car, made 10 years ago. It’s a decent car and we paid in cash. We are in no position to get loans now, nor are we interested in this, so it was the right choice for us this instant.

    As long as you are happy with this, then it was the right decision 🙂

    Reply
  18. Matt says

    December 2, 2019 at 8:58 pm

    Hi JL, thanks for all the advice through out the years. Just wondering if you actually are a resident of south Dakota or you use it for nomadic residency to avoid income taxes as you travel? In the case of the latter, perhaps you could do a post on that for the uninformed?

    Reply
    • jlcollinsnh says

      December 3, 2019 at 9:14 am

      Hi Matt…

      Not really much to say about this.

      If you are nomadic, as we are, you still need an address for all kinds of reasons. Not the least of which is the IRS.

      Since South Dakota is a low tax state, many nomads (especially RVers) establish residence there. The state makes it easy and encourages it, plus there are services that cater to helping set everything up.

      Short post. 😉

      Reply
  19. FIRECracker says

    December 5, 2019 at 2:55 am

    Congrats on Steve 2.0! I love the idea of ignoring phone calls and filtering out the dealers to see who would go the extra mile via e-mail. Sales people love getting you to talk to them face to face, that’s how they break you down. Good job not catering to their sales tactics 🙂

    Reply
  20. Steveark says

    December 5, 2019 at 12:37 pm

    My 2008 $7,000 very used Infiniti does 0-60 in 5.8 seconds. I didn’t realize that my little SUV was faster than the 60’s muscle cars! I get buying cheap new cars but still prefer much cheaper very used cars. I’m never in a hurry and if the car breaks down I just wait for triple A to come get me. My wife however does like new cars and she’s planning on replacing her last new one, a 2006 model, any year nows.

    Reply
  21. Greg M says

    December 8, 2019 at 12:50 am

    Hi Jim,
    Unless the Dealer has clear Title in hand, there is risk paying full cash. Dealer inventory is normally financed through a floor plan lender (floor maker). Floor Makers attach liens against the individual VINs and will not release the lien unless the dealer makes full payment against the specific VIN. Laws are complex and vary by State Certificate of Title Acts and the Uniform Commercial Code. The floor maker will argue a “Sale” did not occur as there was no transfer of Title and try to enforce the lien. During the Financial crisis, three large Chevrolet dealerships in Houston went bankrupt and consumers lost cash down payments. Best to do a no pre payment penalty loan and payoff after 30-60 days. For more info, google Bank One vs Arcadia Financial Texas

    Reply
  22. Eric says

    December 9, 2019 at 2:36 pm

    Okay, so I did a financially silly thing and bought a Tesla Model 3 last year. I don’t regret it at all, best car I’ve ever owned, no other debt, paid cash, full battery every morning, etc. etc.

    But after reading this I wanted to compare and find out just how financially silly, or downright stupid, a decision it might have been. I got the car in late September 2018, so this is for 12 months of ownership (hopefully I can get this to appear reasonably well):

    Purchase price before tax credits: 55,400
    After 5k state, 7.5k federal credit: 42,900
    Tax, registration, plates (in CO): 1950
    Total price: $44850
    Year 1 mileage: 10,500
    kWh used: 2024
    Wh/mi (avg): 257
    Electricity (@ home 0.11$/kWh): 223
    Insurance (yr) 1260
    Per mile cost: $0.51

    Depreciation isn’t included because the tax credit skews the results and shows the car appreciating over the year.

    I included the cost of wiring up a charger in my garage as maintenance ($500 for the charger plus $115 for parts, my labor was free).

    Using your numbers for the Steve 2.0, and assuming an equal number of miles @29mpg and $2.60/gallon, and assuming your insurance is half mine it looks like your per mile cost would be $0.45.

    What really helps in my favor is the low cost of electricity ($0.028/mile) versus gas ($0.075). However, because the Tesla was twice the price, eventually it’s depreciation will be greater (I tend to keep cars for 15+ years so we can assume both going to near zero value),registration is higher (it also appears to be much higher in Colorado than South Dakota) and insurance will be more.

    So overall, buying a Tesla isn’t a great idea financially, but it’s probably not quite as egregious as it appears on the surface due to the drastically lower cost of fuel. If the promise of lower maintenance costs with no oil changes, no filters, no transmission, etc. pans out it might be even or potentially lower, except for depreciation. And the higher initial cost is always going to lead to greater depreciation over a long time period.

    Great articles (this and all the others)! You’ve motivated me to more closely track these expenses because I want to see how the TCO shakes out over time.

    tl;dr version

    Cost per mile:
    Tesla Model 3 LR AWD: $0.51
    Subaru Forester AWD: $0.45

    Reply
    • jlcollinsnh says

      December 9, 2019 at 5:08 pm

      Very interesting Eric.

      I looked closely at a model 3. Given that it is over twice the price, that cost per mile difference is modest.

      Hope you’ll keep us posted on those maintenance costs. I’m very curious about those.

      Thanks!

      Reply
      • Eric says

        December 10, 2019 at 11:28 am

        I will certainly do that and can send an update at the end of this year and would happy to provide updates next year as well.

        We have several road trips planned for the coming year which means charging at Tesla’s Superchargers at a cost of $0.28/kWh. Significantly higher than charging at home. That will negatively affect cost per mile, but is still less than gasoline.

        ps. Why can we take road trips next year? We followed the guidance in “Simple Path” and hit FI. 🙂

        Reply
        • Eric says

          January 2, 2020 at 1:09 pm

          I promised an end of year accounting. Here is what I have for the cost of my 2018 Tesla Model 3 LR AWD

          Tesla Model3 LR AWD
          Purchased September 28, 2018
          Tires: 235 45 R18 T
          Battery: 75 kWh
          Year 2019
          Value $43,000
          Mileage 12,194
          Less starting mileage 2,535
          Total miles for the year 9,659
          Average per month 805
          Wh/mi 260.00
          Ending kWh 3165.00
          kWh used 2483
          Supercharging $ 1.25
          Fuel (@.011$/kWh) $ 273
          Fuel cost/mi $0.028
          Opportunity Cost $2,150
          OFL & Tire Rotate $0
          Maintenance, Repair, Accessories $ 195
          Tires $0
          Cleaning, Detailing & Body Work $ 10
          Registration $ 684
          Insurance $1,260
          Sub total $4,572
          Per mile $ 0.47
          Depreciation $1,665
          Total $6,237
          Per mile $ 0.65
          Lease Comparison $4,010

          The operating cost is 2.8 cents per mile. It’s the opportunity cost and depreciation that bring this total cost up. One positive so far, 12,000 miles and zero required maintenance. It’ll be interesting to see how this compares to Steve 2.0 over the long term.

          If you’re ever in Denver and want a test drive or to talk costs let me know.

          Thanks

          Reply
          • jlcollinsnh says

            January 2, 2020 at 2:53 pm

            Very interesting Eric…

            …thanks!

            Looking at the maintenance schedule, by 12k miles Steve 2.0 will have two oil changes (6k & 12k) and one tire rotation (12k). Also at every 12k is a cabin air filter change which is an easy DIY.

            To 30k miles will add 3 more oil changes (18k, 24k & 30k) and another tire rotation and cabin air filter both at 24k.

            At 30k the air filter and brake fluid need to be changed.

            That’s it unless the various inspecions turn up something else.

            As it happens, we are in CO now. I’ll send you a PM.

          • Eric says

            January 29, 2020 at 10:54 am

            Update after the first long road trip: Denver to Phoenix and back.

            1884 Miles, $81.49 in charging for $0.043 per mile fuel cost.

            We spent the night in Santa Fe on the way down and Albuquerque on the way back, both times at hotels that had free charging.

            Stopping to charge added less than an hour to the trip because we scheduled the long charges to correspond with lunch (car was done before we were) or overnight when we were sleeping. We did make a few short charging stops of less than 10 minutes that aligned nicely with when we wanted a bathroom break anyway.

            As for when to stop, I used an online trip planner before we left to get a rough itinerary, but once we were on the road we entered our destination into the build in navigation system and let the car calculate where to stop and for how long. Most estimates of state of charge on arrival were within a few percent of the initial prediction. The only exception was between Albuquerque and Gallup on the way down where we faced a 40+ MPH headwind. About halfway through that leg the car warned us to slow down to reach our destination so we reduced our speed from 75 to 65 and made that stretch with ease, although it did extend the journey by a few minutes (that’s a big whoopdeedoo). After plugging in at each stop, the car would send an alert to my phone when sufficiently charged to continue the trip (no point in charging fully if you don’t have to).

            While it does take a little more time and awareness to road trip in a Tesla versus an ICE, at no point did it seem a burden.

          • jlcollinsnh says

            January 29, 2020 at 12:54 pm

            Thanks for the update, Eric!

            Sounds like road-tripping a Tesla is mostly about rethinking expectations. Like: ” (no point in charging fully if you don’t have to).”

            A couple of questions:

            When parked at the hotel chargers, do you go down and move your car once it is charged or do you just leave it until you depart?

            When having lunch while charging on the road, how do you get to and from the restaurant?

  23. Project Rijk Leven (Zus B) says

    December 17, 2019 at 1:33 pm

    Finally, the entire story! Thanks for the interesting read. I’ve used the mailing tactic on more than one occasion. When it’s expensive stuff, like a new couch, my hot-water tap and wooden window-shutters and you know what you want, it’s just that much easier than going to all the stores. Also: the big price differences between the (few) stores that react with an actual quote always amaze me. My rule of thumb is: I’ll dedicate one e-mail and send it out to lots of stores and then deal with my let’s say top 3 after that. And you’re right: if it feels ‘off’, then I’ll just go somewhere else, even if they have the lowest price.

    Reply
  24. Greenbacks Magnet says

    December 17, 2019 at 4:12 pm

    Good story. I can’t believe they wouldn’t take a check!! Understandable, but still. We do not believe you have the money in the bank, but we will loan your the money with no problem easy peasy for a mere 2.9%! They are giving out loans in America like Skittles candy!

    Please excuse my ire, as my blog is all about rejecting new car loans to become FI. After, paying off my car loan over 10 years ago, I never went back, I gave up financing cars. I kissed car loan payments goodnight. I turned my $448.65 monthly payment into about $200,000 in Mr. Market! I say forget car loans. It just so happened in this case it was a reasonable solution, but I say pay that sucker off ASAP. Car payments are wealth killers for sure!

    Just my 2 cents.

    Respectfully yours,
    Miriam

    Reply
    • jlcollinsnh says

      December 17, 2019 at 7:56 pm

      No worries, Miriam…

      …the loan is on borrowed time. 🙂

      Reply
  25. Travis says

    December 17, 2019 at 5:53 pm

    Hi Jim,

    I noticed the T&N banner at the top of each page is set to 728px wide, even when on mobile. When people view the page from their phones, this causes an issue with being able to side-scroll. It is also causing your bottom ad from Mediavine to not show correctly since they are centering the ad.

    You may want to check with T&N and see if they can send you a square version of their header ad. Then, talk with your web developer and have them use the square version when the page is being displayed on mobile devices (which is a majority of most website traffic nowadays). This should help increase click-thrus to T&N (which they will appreciate), display your bottom ads correctly (which will increase your RPM with Mediavine), and make for a better user experience by getting rid of the side-scroll.

    Let me know if you have any questions!

    Take Care,
    Travis

    Reply
    • jlcollinsnh says

      December 17, 2019 at 7:55 pm

      Thanks Travis…

      We’ve have asked them before, but this is a good reminder to revisit the issue.

      Reply
    • jlcollinsnh says

      December 20, 2019 at 2:09 pm

      Thanks Travis…

      …we’re working on it! 😉

      Reply
  26. Vinay M says

    January 10, 2020 at 6:48 pm

    Nice read but more importantly I’m glad the manner in which I bought my previous two cars have been ratified by you! The more something is going to cost me, the more research and thinking I tend to do. And I’ve learnt not to get too emotionally involved with the item I’m trying to purchase.

    When we first went in to purchase our brand new Honda Odyssey, we were surprised to see it up on the rails at the dealer’s service center. The dealer told us the power windows weren’t working and needed to replaced, meaning we couldn’t pick up the car that same day. Thankfully, we’d asked to see the car first before signing any paperwork. Even more astonishingly, he told us that had we come by after the repair was finished, he wasn’t even obligated to report the issue to us. Needless to say, we walked straight out of there and waited a couple more weeks and bought the car from a different dealership for $1300 less (thankfully we live in same state as the dealership, so the check wasn’t an issue in our case!).

    Reply
  27. Frugalista says

    January 11, 2020 at 5:29 pm

    Please permit me to play devil’s advocate. At the risk of being accused of financial heresy (or would it considered apostasy?), let me explain why I’ve 100% financed my last 3 new car purchases despite being in a position to pay all cash. It comes down to depreciation–and risk avoidance. Let me explain.
    I’ve always heard that one should put 20% down in cash on a new car, and finance no more than 80%. The thinking being that the car’s value starts depreciating the moment you drive it off the lot. If your car is stolen or totaled shortly after purchase, your auto policy will reimburse you for the value of the car (which, in the first year or so of ownership, one assumes is no less than 80% of the purchase price). Bottom line: you’ve kissed goodbye the 20% down payment, but at least you aren’t underwater in the sense of receiving an insurance check for less than you owe on the car note (and, depending on the car’s actual depreciation, possibly will recoup a portion of that 20% down payment).
    In my case, my credit union has always been willing to finance 100% of the value of a new car at a reasonable rate due to my high credit score. Yes, obviously I’m paying the credit union X dollars in interest over the life of the loan, which would stay in my pocket/invested if I had paid all cash. On the other hand, I’m still earning a return on the funds I didn’t withdraw in order to pay all cash for the new car. No guarantee that I’m earning as much or more on the funds I’ve retained than the APR on the car loan, but hear me out…
    My credit union also offers optional GAP insurance for a flat rate, which is designed to pay the difference between the actual value of the car at the time of a total loss and what you still owe on the car note. So in the UNLIKELY event that my new car is stolen or totaled shortly after purchase, I won’t be out of pocket a penny after the insurance pay-off and the GAP insurance settlement. Note that if I had made a 20% down payment, or paid all cash, I’d be out of pocket for however much the car had depreciated by the date of loss. Every car depreciates at a different rate, depending on a variety of market factors. My experience has been that the difference between the actual depreciated value of the car, and the remaining loan balance (or the “gap”, which this optional insurance covers) dissipates somewhere between 2.5 and 3.5 years of ownership.
    When I purchased this optional GAP insurance for the first new car many years ago, it cost an extra $250. The last time I purchased a new car (2013–I hold on to my cars for a while), the cost had climbed to $375. I think this is a reasonable expense to pay for the peace of mind it brings. Put another way, for a few hundred dollars I’ll gladly let the credit union’s underwriter assume the risk of covering the gap, which in the first year or so of ownership could total a few thousand dollars. (My last 3 new cars have been modest, inexpensive models. Similar 2020 models have an MSRP in the $20-$25k range). Have I ever made a claim on this optional coverage for the past 3 new vehicles? No, I haven’t – and I fully realize how low the probability is of ever making a claim. On the other hand, I certainly sleep better knowing that someone else is covering the risk–which is the entire point of insurance coverage. In case you’re wondering, this is the only optional coverage I purchase; I don’t opt for extended car or mechanical breakdown warranties.

    Reply
  28. Elizabeth says

    January 13, 2020 at 12:43 pm

    I had a similar excellent feeling about a Subaru dealership in St. Louis. We drove 150 miles for them rather than the local place because it just felt RIGHT.

    Reply
    • Elizabeth says

      January 13, 2020 at 12:45 pm

      Incidentally, they got a little more money out of us, but it was so much more comfortable and easy-going of a process. They had their price, they justified it, and it was worth it. It was ok for them to get slightly more money out of us than the place that aggressively pestered and tried to sell to me with little flexibility.

      Reply
  29. Steve Funnell says

    January 29, 2020 at 7:09 am

    I’m curious as to how you fund medium size cash purchases like this, given you only keep a bank account outside investments – do you maintain a sizable cash buffer in your bank account for ad hoc events like this (large holidays, house maintenance, etc.) or do you keep minimal cash and always draw down from investments?

    Reply
    • jlcollinsnh says

      January 29, 2020 at 12:49 pm

      These days, we don’t draw on investments at all.

      Since 2016, income from this blog and book royalties cover our daily living expenses. When I plan buying something like a car, I just let the cash build up while I think about it. 🙂

      Reply
  30. Barbara Arendt says

    February 6, 2020 at 8:58 pm

    I bought the Pearl White Sport. I buy cars new but not often – every 15 years or so. If I was going to buy such a pragmatic vehicle, it damn well better have some color splashed on it. Still learning the mechanics. Love the safety features. I splurged on the sound system. I intend to be buried in this car.

    Reply
    • jlcollinsnh says

      February 6, 2020 at 11:44 pm

      Given your intention, Barbara…

      …I hope it lasts far longer than 15 years. 😉

      Reply
      • barbara arendt says

        February 7, 2020 at 10:55 am

        I only traded in the Saturn because of safety issues that were becoming more apparent. I don’t feel comfortable in unsafe cars. New cars are just computers on wheels and we all know computers don’t last too long..but we will see.

        Reply
  31. nobu says

    July 3, 2020 at 7:07 pm

    I just read Your book
    『Your Road Map toFinancial Independence and a Richi,Free Life 』
    I am a 47 year old man living in Japan. I have 6 children.
    It was really nice to meet this book. I ran a company and was thinking a bit about what kind of life and education I could give my children in the future.
    I have been working since 14 years old. I was deceived by many people and lost money. I also lived a flashy life, used many credit cards, and really struggled with money. That’s why I don’t want the same mistake to be my child.
    I want to keep telling my children the learning of this book.

    I really appreciate the publication of the Japanese translation book.

    Someday, if you come to Japan or have an online seminar, etc., I would love to see it!

    I pray for your future success.

    Reply
    • jlcollinsnh says

      July 6, 2020 at 10:20 am

      Thank you, Nobu…

      …glad you enjoyed it!

      We had a chance to visit Japan a couple of years ago and had a wonderful time!

      Reply

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      • The Price of Security
    • ► July (1)
      • Case Study #17: Buying into the market right before a Bear
    • ► June (1)
      • Case Study #16: Helping dad with an inheritance
    • ► May (1)
      • Just inked a contract for my next book, and I want you to be a part of it!
    • ► April (1)
      • The Dinky Diner
    • ► March (1)
      • Chautauqua: A terrible business model
    • ► February (2)
      • Chautauqua is back for 2022!
      • JLCollinsnh.com Enters New Era
  • ► 2021 (14)
    • ► December (1)
      • Season's Greetings!!
    • ► November (2)
      • The new book is out!
      • Are bonds done?
    • ► October (1)
      • Guess what I just finally read for the first time...
    • ► September (1)
      • The negligence that led me to DIY investing
    • ► August (3)
      • Chainsaws and Credit Cards
      • Part XXXVI: Estate Planning 101 -- The Simple Path to an Estate Plan
      • The Simple Path to a Lucrative Career
    • ► July (1)
      • Help Wanted: a new book
    • ► June (1)
      • The Top 9 (Bad) Arguments Against Bitcoin
    • ► May (2)
      • Collins on Crypto
      • The Alfred Hitchcock Path to FI
    • ► April (1)
      • Time to sell?
    • ► February (1)
      • Mariah International: All that glitters…
  • ► 2020 (11)
    • ► December (1)
      • Season's Greetings!!
    • ► June (1)
      • How to give when you have a business
    • ► April (4)
      • Investing with Vanguard for Europeans: 2020 update
      • Part XVII-B: ETF vs. Mutual Fund -- What's the difference?
      • Reviewing the comments on my post of April 1st
      • Why I will no longer be writing this blog
    • ► March (4)
      • My move from VMMXX to VBTLX
      • COVID-19: The unvarnished truth from Doc G.
      • Chautauqua sits out 2020
      • Taking advantage of Mr. Bear
    • ► February (1)
      • Mr. Bear, Podcasts, a good book and why I should be in 100% stocks
  • ► 2019 (11)
    • ► November (4)
      • How we bought our new car
      • The House Hacking Strategy
      • What does buying a new car really cost over the years?
      • Why we bought a brand new car
    • ► August (1)
      • A Guided Meditation for When the Stock Market Is Dropping
    • ► June (2)
      • 7 Days in Heaven: or Why Slowing Down Will Get You There Sooner
      • Quit Like a Millionaire
    • ► March (1)
      • Stocks -- Part XXXV: Investing for Seven Generations
    • ► February (1)
      • Chautauqua 2019 - UK & Portugal - Tickets Now Available
    • ► January (2)
      • Mr. Bogle passes
      • "I wanted the unreasonable"
  • ► 2018 (16)
    • ► December (1)
      • Happy Holidays! and a bit on Mr. Market
    • ► November (3)
      • Truly Passive Real Estate Investing
      • Car Talk: An update on Steve and looking at Leafs
      • Chautauqua 2018 Greece: A week for the gods!
    • ► October (1)
      • On Twitter, gone for Chautauqua and dark on comments till November
    • ► September (2)
      • What we own and why we own it: 2018
      • Tuft & Needle: Our Walnut Frame and Mint Mattress
    • ► August (1)
      • Kibanda Part 5: Pretty, and pretty much done
    • ► June (3)
      • Stocks--Part XXXIV: How to unload your unwanted stocks and funds
      • Tracking your holdings
      • Stocks -- Part XXXIII: Optimism
    • ► May (2)
      • Kibanda Part 4: Quicksand!
      • My Talk at Google, Playing with FIRE and other Chautauqua connections
    • ► March (1)
      • Stocks -- Part XXXII: Why you should not be in the stock market
    • ► February (1)
      • Chautauqua 2018: Mt. Olympus, Greece
    • ► January (1)
      • An International Portfolio from The Escape Artist
  • ► 2017 (15)
    • ► December (2)
      • The Bond Experiment: Return to VBTLX
      • How to Invest in Bitcoin like Benjamin Graham
    • ► October (1)
      • Kibanda Part 3: Running the numbers
    • ► September (1)
      • Sleeping soundly thru a market crash: The Wasting Asset Retirement Model
    • ► August (2)
      • Stocks -- Part XXXI: Too hot. Too cold. Not pure enough.
      • Kibanda, Part 2: Negotiating the deal
    • ► July (2)
      • Time Machine and the future returns for stocks
      • Kibanda: Mr. Anti-house buys his dream house
    • ► June (2)
      • Is there an interior designer in the house?
      • The Simple Path to Wealth goes Audio!
    • ► May (1)
      • Life on the Beach
    • ► April (1)
      • Sell! Sell!! Sell!!! Sell?
    • ► March (1)
      • Vicki comes to Chautauqua: United Kingdom
    • ► January (2)
      • Chautauqua - Ecuador 2017 open for reservations
      • Chautauqua - United Kingdom: August 2017
  • ► 2016 (22)
    • ► December (3)
      • Season's Greetings and other cool stuff
      • Angel Investing, or Angel Philanthropy?
      • Mr. Bogle and me
    • ► November (1)
      • Where did you learn about money?
    • ► October (2)
      • Buy Your Freedom; Rent the Rest
      • So, what do you drive?
    • ► September (2)
      • Stocks -- Part XXX: jlcollinsnh vs. Vanguard
      • A visit to the Frugalwoods
    • ► August (1)
      • What the naysayers are missing
    • ► July (1)
      • Reviews of The Simple Path to Wealth; gone for summer
    • ► June (2)
      • The Simple Path to Wealth is now Published!
      • A peek into The Simple Path to Wealth
    • ► May (1)
      • It's better in the wind. Still.
    • ► April (3)
      • Cool things to check out while I'm gone
      • Stocks — Part XXIX: How to save money for college. Or not.
      • Help Wanted: The Book
    • ► March (1)
      • F-You Money: John Goodman v. jlcollinsnh
    • ► February (2)
      • Q&A - V: The Women of Amphissa
      • jlcollinsnh gets a new suit
    • ► January (3)
      • Chautauqua 2015 Reviews, 2016 registration open
      • Case Study #15: The Scavenger Life -- Freedom first, then Financial Independence
      • 3rd Annual (2015) Louis Rukeyser Memorial Market Prediction Contest results, and my forecast for 2016
  • ► 2015 (18)
    • ► December (2)
      • Q&A - IV: Strawberry Patch
      • Seasons Greetings! and other cool stuff
    • ► October (2)
      • Personal Capital; and how to unload your unwanted stocks and funds
      • Stockchoker: A look back at what your investment might have been
    • ► September (2)
      • Case Study #14: To Dream the Impossible Dream (and then realize it)
      • Hotel Living
    • ► August (1)
      • Mr. Market's Wild Ride
    • ► June (4)
      • Gone for Summer, an important note on comments and random cool stuff that caught my eye
      • Around the world with an Aussie Biker
      • Case Study #13: The Power of Flexibility
      • Stocks — Part VIII: The 401(k), 403(b), TSP, IRA & Roth Buckets
    • ► March (2)
      • Stocks -- Part XXVIII: Debt - The Unacceptable Burden
      • Chautauqua October 2015: Times Two!
    • ► February (2)
      • YNAB: Best Place to Work Ever?
      • Case Study #12: Escaping a soul-crushing job before you're 70
    • ► January (3)
      • Case Study #11: John, a small business owner in transition
      • Trish and Stan take an Intrepid Sailing Voyage
      • 2014 Annual Louis Rukeyser Memorial Market Prediction Contest results, and my forecast for 2015
  • ► 2014 (29)
    • ► December (2)
      • Diamonds and Happy Holidays!
      • Micro-Lending with Kiva
    • ► November (3)
      • Chautauqua February 7-14, 2015: Escape from Winter
      • Stocks -- Part XXVII: Why I Don’t Like Dollar Cost Averaging
      • Jack Bogle and the Presidential Medal of Freedom
    • ► October (3)
      • Tuft & Needle: A better path to sleep
      • Nightmare on Wall Street: Will the Blood Bath Continue?
      • Help Wanted
    • ► September (1)
      • Chautauqua 2014: Lightning strikes again!
    • ► August (2)
      • Stocks -- Part XXVI: Pulling the 4%
      • Stocks -- Part XXV: HSAs, more than just a way to pay your medical bills.
    • ► July (3)
      • Stocks -- Part XXIV: RMDs, the ugly surprise at the end of the tax-deferred rainbow
      • Summer travels, writing, reading and other amusements
      • Moto X, my new Republic Wireless Phone
    • ► June (1)
      • Stocks -- Part XXIII: Selecting your asset allocation
    • ► May (1)
      • Stocks -- Part XXII: Stepping away from REITs
    • ► April (3)
      • Q&A III: Vamos
      • Q&A II: Salamat
      • Q&A I: Gaijin Shogun
    • ► March (2)
      • Top 10 posts
      • Cafe No Se
    • ► February (4)
      • Chautauqua 2014 preview, closing up for travel and other random cool things that caught my eye of late.
      • Case Study #10: Should Josiah buy his parents a house?
      • Case Study #9: Lars -- maximizing some good fortune and considering "dollar cost averaging"
      • Case Study #8: Ron's mother - she's doin' all right!
    • ► January (4)
      • roundup: Some random cool things
      • Stocks — Part XXI: Investing with Vanguard for Europeans
      • Case Study #7: What it looks like when everything financial goes wrong
      • 1st Annual Louis Rukeyser Memorial Market Prediction Contest 2013 results, and my forecast for 2014
  • ► 2013 (41)
    • ► December (4)
      • Closing up for the Holidays, see you in 2014
      • Betterment: a simpler path to wealth
      • Case Study 6: Helping an ill and elderly parent
      • Stocks -- Part XX: Early Retirement Withdrawal Strategies and Roth Conversion Ladders from a Mad Fientist
    • ► November (3)
      • Death, Taxes, Estate Plans, Probate and Prob8
      • Case Study #5: Zero to 2.6 million in 25 years
      • Case Study #4: Using the 4% rule and asset allocations.
    • ► October (3)
      • Republic Wireless and my $19 per month phone plan
      • Case Study #3: Let's get Tom to Latin America!
      • The Stock Series gets its own page
    • ► September (2)
      • Case Study #2: Joe -- off to a fast start!
      • Chautauqua 2013: A Week of Dreams
    • ► August (1)
      • Closing up shop plus an opening at Chautauqua, my new podcast, phone, book and other random cool stuff
    • ► July (1)
      • They Will Kill You For Your Shoes!
    • ► June (4)
      • Stocks -- Part VIII-b: Should you avoid your company's 401k?
      • Shilpan's Seven Habits to Live More with Less
      • Stocks -- Part XIX: How to think about money
      • My path for my kid -- the first 10 years
    • ► May (5)
      • Why your house is a terrible investment
      • Stocks — Part XVIII: Investing in a raging bull
      • Dining with the Ghosts of Sarah Bernhardt and Alfons Mucha
      • How we finally got the house sold
      • Stocks — Part XVII: What if you can't buy VTSAX? Or even Vanguard?
    • ► April (4)
      • Greetings from Prague & a computer question
      • Swimming with Tigers, a 2nd chance on the Chautauqua, a financial article gets it wrong and I'm off to Prague
      • Storage, Moving and Movers
      • Homeless, and a bit on the strategy of dollar cost averaging
    • ► March (4)
      • Wild Turkeys, Motorcycles, Dining Room Sets & Greed
      • Roots v. Wings: considering home ownership
      • How about that stock market?!
      • The Blog has New Clothes
    • ► February (5)
      • Meet Mr. Money Mustache, JD Roth, Cheryl Reed & me for a Chautauqua in Ecuador
      • High School Poetry, Carnival, cool ads and random pictures that caught my eye
      • Consignment Shops: Best business model ever?
      • Cafes
      • Stocks -- Part XVI: Index Funds are really just for lazy people, right?
    • ► January (5)
      • Social Security: How secure and when to take it
      • Fighting giraffes, surreal landscapes, dancing with unicorns and restoring a Vanagon
      • My plan for 2013
      • VITA, income taxes and the IRS
      • How to be a stock market guru and get on MSNBC
  • ► 2012 (53)
    • ► December (6)
      • See you next year....until then: The Origin of Life, Life on Other Worlds, Mechanical Graveyards, Great Art, Alternative Lifestyles and Finding Freedom
      • Stocks -- Part XV: Target Retirement Funds, the simplest path to wealth of all
      • Stocks -- Part XIV: Deflation, the ugly escort of Depressions.
      • Stocks Part XIV: Deflation, the ugly escort of Depressions.
      • Stocks -- Part XIII: The 4% rule, withdrawal rates and how much can I spend anyway?
      • How I learned to stop worrying about the Fiscal Cliff and you can too.
    • ► November (2)
      • Rent v. owning: A couple of case studies in Ecuador
      • So, what does a month in Ecuador cost anyway?
    • ► October (4)
      • See you in December....
      • Meet me in Ecuador?
      • The Podcast: You can hear me now.
      • Stocks -- Part XII: Bonds
    • ► September (6)
      • Stocks -- Part XI: International Funds
      • The Smoother Path to Wealth
      • Case Study #I: Putting the Simple Path to Wealth into Action
      • Tales of Bolivia: Calle de las Brujas
      • Stocks -- Part X: What if Vanguard gets Nuked?
      • Travels in South America: It was the best of times....
    • ► August (1)
      • Home again
    • ► June (4)
      • Yellow Fever, closing up shop for the summer and heading to Peru y Bolivia
      • I could not have said it better myself...
      • Stocks -- Part IX: Why I don't like investment advisors
      • Happy Birthday, jlcollinsnh; and thanks for the gift Mr. MM!
    • ► May (6)
      • Stocks -- Part VIII: The 401K, 403b, TSP, IRA & Roth Buckets
      • Mr. Money Mustache
      • The College Conundrum
      • Stocks -- Part VII: Can everyone really retire a millionaire?
      • Stocks -- Part VI: Portfolio ideas to build and keep your wealth
      • Stocks -- Part V: Keeping it simple, considerations and tools
    • ► April (6)
      • Stocks -- Part IV: The Big Ugly Event, Deflation and a bit on Inflation
      • Stocks -- Part III: Most people lose money in the market.
      • Stocks -- Part II: The Market Always Goes Up
      • Stocks -- Part 1: There's a major market crash coming!!!! and Dr. Lo can't save you.
      • You can eat my Vindaloo, mega lottery, Blondie, Noa, Israel Kamakawiwo 'Ole, art, film and a ride on the Space Shuttle
      • Where in the world are you?
    • ► March (7)
      • How I lost money in real estate before it was fashionable, Part V: Sold! and the taxman cometh.
      • How I lost money in real estate before it was fashionable, Part IV: I become a Landlord.
      • How I lost money in real estate before it was fashionable, Part III: The Battle is Joined.
      • How I lost money in real estate before it was fashionable, Part II: The Limits of the Law.
      • How I lost money in real estate before it was fashionable, Part I: Impossibly Naive.
      • You, too, can be conned
      • Armageddon and the value of practical skills
    • ► February (6)
      • Rent v. Owning Your Home, opportunity cost and running some numbers
      • The Casanova Kid, a Shit Knife, a Good Book, Having No Regrets, Dark Matter and a bit of Magic
      • What Poker, Basketball and Mike Whitaker taught me about Luck
      • How to Give like a Billionaire
      • Go ahead, make my day
      • Muk Finds Success in Tahiti
    • ► January (5)
      • Travels with "Esperando un Camino"
      • Beanie Babies, Naked Barbie, American Pickers and Old Coots
      • Selling the House and Adventures in Staging
      • The bashing of Index Funds, Jack Bogle and a Jedi dog trick
      • Magic Beans
  • ► 2011 (22)
    • ► December (1)
      • Dividend Growth Investing
    • ► November (2)
      • The Mummy's head, Particle Physics and "Knocking on Heaven's Door"
      • "It's Better in the Wind" or why I ride a motorcycle
    • ► October (1)
      • Lazy Days and School Days
    • ► July (2)
      • The road to Zanzibar sometimes goes thru Ecuador...
      • Johnny wins the lotto and heads to Paris
    • ► June (16)
      • Chainsaws, Elm Trees and paying for College
      • Stuff I’ve failed at: the early years
      • Snatching Victory from the Jaws of Defeat
      • The. Worst. Used. Car. Ever.
      • Top Ten reasons your future is so bright it hurts my eyes to look at it
      • The Most Dangerous Words Your Customer Can Say
      • How not to drown in The Sea of Assholes
      • What we own and why we own it
      • The Ten Sales Commandments
      • My ever so formal and oh so dry CV
      • How I failed my daughter and a simple path to wealth
      • The Myth of Motivation
      • Why you need F-you money
      • My short attention span
      • Why I can’t pick winning stocks, and you can’t either
      • The Monk and the Minister

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