Are Index Funds a Bubble?

 

Are Index Funds a Bubble?

Lanju Photografie, Unsplash

Recently a friend reached out asking for my take on concerns raised in this article:

What Goes Up

I hate these kind of requests, probably because every time this sort of hand wringing article appears, people want me to talk them down off the ledge. 

Ordinarily, I ignore these requests. Guess I’m bored fielding them and reading this stuff. There’s nothing new in them and, if you’ve read my work, you already know my take.

All that said, given the personal connection, I responded. If you’re interested, here’s what I said in reply.

I’ve been sent this article before and so just skimmed it this time around. Overall, Lipstein does a balanced job, setting aside the click bait sub title, and the guy from Vanguard makes the right case, although not as strongly as perhaps he could have.

Let’s look at a bit of history for some perspective.

Bogle launched Vanguard and the first low cost index fund in 1975, and it is hard now to imagine just how egregious the fees and commissions around investing were. A gold mine for the guys selling active investments and individual stocks, a hosing for the investor. 5%+ loads (commissions) to buy funds or stocks were common. Same to sell them. Then funds typically charged 1-3% ERs (expense ratios) annually. 

These investment guys are not dumb, and they immediately recognized the threat indexing represented to their gravy train. The attacks on indexing and Bogle were immediate and harsh as they tried to strangle indexing in its crib.

Legend has it that Ned Johnson, who owned and ran Fidelity at the time (his daughter does now), ran a series of ads calling indexing, among other things, “un-American”. Bogle had these ads framed and put up in his office. (Fidelity has since embraced indexing.)

Indexing got off to a slow start. While academics, largely at the University of Chicago, were laying out the intellectual foundations, at the time it was an unproven, if logical, concept in the real world. It is very counter intuitive to think just holding the index outperforms actively choosing winners and avoiding losers. But it does, and as the decades wore on the data proved this repeatedly and in all types of markets.

The worst fears of the financial industry were relentlessly realized. Commissions fell and then disappeared. ERs, even of active funds, fell to under 1%. ERs for index funds also dropped steadily. 

Fast forward to today. My fund of choice, VTSAX, now has an ER of .04% and stock trading commissions are gone. Small investors like us have benefited enormously and billions of dollars now remain in our collective pockets. This is why I refer to Mr. Bogle as a fiscal saint.

Of course the attacks and fear mongering continue. 

It is worth noting that those cited in the article as concerned about indexing being a bubble – Cathie Wood, Michael Burry, Peter Lynch, Elon Musk, David Einhorn, Carl Icahn, and Robert F. Kennedy Jr. – while being very smart people, have a dog in this fight. They are active managers, CEO of a public company and a politician. 

Let’s look at some of the specific concerns raised:

1. Indexing has grown too large and has become a bubble.

The case is made that index funds hold minimal cash, while active funds typically hold ~5% cash. In a downturn, the index fund has to immediately sell shares to meet redemptions and this could cascade into a bursting bubble. The active fund has cash on hand to meet these redemptions, preventing a cascade. This is a bit laughable.

In times of corrections, drops of 10% or less, a fund’s cash on hand helps meet redemptions, as does the normal flow of new money coming in.

However, when the market takes a major plunge, both these sources for redemption are burned though and shares do need to be sold. This definitely has a cascading effect and is one of the factors that drives major market plunges further down. But this was true long before indexing was a gleam in anyone’s eye. If you want to hold enough cash to mitigate a market plunge, 5% ain’t gonna do it.

Currently, Warren Buffett holds ~190 billion/~21% in cash in Berkshire for example, and he doesn’t have to worry about redemptions.

If you want to hold enough cash to mitigate redemptions in a market crash think 50%, not 5%. Of course, if the market doesn’t crash (and crashes are rare), that cash will be a major drag on your performance. Which is why active managers don’t do it.

2. Active investors are needed to set the value of companies through their analysis of the business and trading activity. With indexing taking over the world this function is being lost.

Well, yes. And no.

Yes it is an important function but, no, indexing is not about to bury it.

Indexing, depending on the source you consult*, accounts for ~35% of equities. But remember, indexing has become very broadly applied. There are index funds tracking every conceivable sector you can imagine.

*(Estimates vary widely. Experts put passive investing’s share of the U.S. stock market anywhere between 15 and 38 percent.) 

More useful might be the fact that the three biggest broad based index fund managers, BlackRock, Vanguard, and State Street, own ~25% of the S&P 500. Large for sure, but 75% is still in other hands.

Consider, too, that the market today is far larger than in 1975 (when indexing launched) and earlier. There is a far larger number of shares being traded by active managers today than before indexing arrived. The value setting function is alive an well.

3. That might be true today, but what happens if indexing takes over ever more of the market and active investors disappear?

Well, that might be a problem. But it’s never gonna happen:

A. Human nature being what it is, people are always going to think they can beat the market, and Wall Street has a vested interest in encouraging this belief. Consider the explosive growth of Robinhood and this:

Bull Market Headlines

B. If indexing were to grow to the point it interferes with establishing values for traded companies, the opportunity to take advantage of this disconnect would give active managers a genuine opening to outperform. As they did, they’d trumpet this success and investors would flock back to that side of the aisle.

OK, that’s enough for now. My fingers are tired.

 

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Comments

  1. Aneal B says

    Very interesting article. I’ve noticed a lot of people, including myself, have worried about index funds becoming a ‘bubble’ however it’s clear that a lot of people still actively invest including myself occasionally so I do think that active investing is still alive and well. An interesting point about how there would be opportunities for active investing if everyone invested in index funds thus driving up demand for active investing; keeping the market ‘efficient’.

  2. GR says

    I’m a member of several local investing communities. Almost everybody is doing some sort of active investing and passive investing is seen as lame and “old grandpa” thing to do.

    Oh well, we’ll see about that.

    • JL Collins says

      The lure of outperformance is strong and the financial incentive on Wall Street to encourage it even stronger.

      Active investors will long play their part in the market.

      Bad for the vast majority of them, good for the market’s health. 😉

  3. Lee says

    I’d be curious to hear your take on the idea that passive investing is driving up the value of the top few companies in the market. This seems logical to me. Even if 25% of the S&P is owned by passive investors, that’s still a lot of money flowing to those top few stocks every day.

    • JL Collins says

      It does seem logical, but it is only one factor of many that drive the price of a given stock. And it doesn’t prevent volatility in even the largest companies. Witness Tesla this year and Nvidia more recently.

      Leading stocks, and sectors for that matter, rotate in and out of dominance. Old stars, like Sears, fade away and are replaced by new ones like Amazon.

      I call this process ‘self-cleansing’ and it is the reason I can hold VTSAX forever without worrying about winners & losers.

      • Lee says

        I get that the self cleansing works. I just wonder at what point will there be enough money in index funds to actually start impacting the share prices.

        Also, I don’t get your #1 bullet above. You say that one of the concerns is that indexing has grown too big, but then the response to that is only related to the amount of cash that index funds hold. That doesn’t make sense to me.

        Overall though, I agree that index funds are the way to go, but it is worth giving this idea some thought.

        The main reason I think that we should be ok with index funds is that there are too many people & funds putting money towards these things. Even if they drop a bit, people will keep putting more in which will keep it higher. The US gov’t also has a vested interest in keeping these funds chugging along ever upward too.

        Although that doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s not a bubble. Just that it’s a hard one to pop.

  4. Aaron Axvig says

    Do you think the increased use of technology played a significant role in the loads and expense ratios falling?

    At some point they were tracking all this stuff on paper, and then primitive computer systems. Nowadays it is all highly automated. The actual cost of computing a transaction may be a thousandth or even less of what it used to be.

    • JL Collins says

      Interesting question!

      My take is that increased tech has allowed investment firms to better deal with falling revenue, but clearly it was competition from low cost index funds that forced their hands.

  5. Michael says

    The key figures mentioned focus on a misleading factor when comes to the index “bubble”. The assets under management do not affect stock price. If anything trading volume has a larger affect on prices which index funds only make up 5% of.

  6. Mike says

    I’m off and down. The ledge was getting crowded anyway and as you’ve alluded, nature demands balance.

  7. Gabriele Nicolini says

    Hi JL – great points to reflect on. When I make an investment on index fund I don’t have an impact on the market. When I was more active in the market I had an impact on the market – for a second. Wall street and Milan stock exchange loved my activity. They made a lot of money and I made less. Now, thanks to index and nearly zero activity I make a bit more money and they make less.
    Furthermore I think index funds may give us as investors more confidence to stay the course for the long term and that should lead to higher returns and stability to the market. All the best!

  8. Dr Jacob Jingles says

    The index fund bubble fear for me is like this:

    If in an index tracker, there are companies issuing more shares than other companies buying them back proportionally, and this continues over a long period, the blind money being fed in will lead to wildly over-valued companies and a bubble.

  9. Aaron says

    The only downside I see to indexing is how it affects corporate governance. If 3 companies (i.e. Blackrock, Vanguard, and StateStreet) own the majority of shares of most public companies then you have concentrated voting power in just a few entities.

    • Dr Jacob Jingles says

      I’ll never buy a Blackrock fund because they’re a public company and push whatever agenda they choose. It’s different with Vanguard. I’m not sure about StateStreet

  10. Jay says

    I have been looking for ideas on how to simplify/declutter a portfolio, and this led me back to your site. I ended up reading your recent article and then read What Goes Up. I’ll let the ideas from both articles percolate a bit, but on first impression I’m skeptical of Green’s thinking. I also looked up his actively managed ETF mentioned in the Harper’s article (FIG). It has a high fee and has not performed well. In early July, WSJ columnist Jason Zweig wrote an article “Why Your Fund Manager Can’t Beat Today’s Stock Market” that adds to the discussion on active vs passive investing. While it’s true that we shouldn’t be too passive about anything (read labels, follow news enough to know what’s happening, be prepared for downturns), I’m not convinced that passive investing will ruin the market someday. I think a bigger worry is that even with retirement savings and investments, many people won’t have enough money to cover the sometimes exorbitant costs of living a very long life.

  11. Rich By Name Only says

    VTSAX and Chill!
    The Godfather of FI’s voice has a way of calming me when I’m watching the commotion of the market and the talking heads.

  12. Aaron says

    I first discovered your work over 10 years ago, so it’s helpful to hear these reminders. With so much information on social media about investing, it’s easy to forget.

  13. Shawn says

    I have VTI in one account, but SCHB in another. My question is do you also think it is similar enough to VTI (VTSAX)? Or should I switch to the Vanguard funds? I have a Schwab account but read The Simple Path to Wealth recently. Learning more about VTSAX and VTI more since reading the book on Choose FI Podcast too.

    Shawn

  14. Oladapo says

    Hi Mr Collins,

    I hope this message finds you well. My name is Oladapo, and I’ve been following your work for some time now, particularly your insights on investing and the importance of index funds. I’m currently in the process of investing in Vanguard index funds, but as an investor based in Africa, I’m concerned about the 30% withholding tax on dividends.

    I wanted to reach out to see if you have any advice or strategies for investors in Africa looking to invest in Vanguard funds while navigating this tax issue. Your guidance on how to optimize investment in this context would mean a lot to me, as I truly value your expertise.

    Thank you.

  15. Rick Jagger says

    I’ve got an interesting question surrounding this topic and lump-summing huge amounts in this market. One of my parents just saw the job that he’s had for 40 years dissolve in front of his eyes, and they have a paid-off house in a low cost of living area, a 401k and other investment assets between $1-2MM, and $3k a month soon to be headed their way when they start social security in 2027. They never really touched or thought about the assets in their investment/retirement accounts, never moved an old 403b from mom’s job years ago, did the financial adviser thing and have some individual stocks, all high fee stuff. We are going through the process of taking all of these $1-2MM in assets out of high fee mutual funds (some old 5% load stuff with 1.6% expense ratios, ouch!) and transferring everything to IRAs and taxable accounts with Vanguard, and I am having trouble advising them to pull the trigger on VTI when its P/E ratio is sitting at 27.5x, ‘Very Expensive’ per the MMM the stock market is on sale article and other research on reduced returns when buying at elevated P/E ratios. Maybe I just need someone to reiterate the ‘time in the market beats timing the market’ adage, but lump sum investing $1-2MM, i.e. their entire investment net worth, at this time in the market feels scary. Will temper some of this with bonds via BND, but what do you suggest, friends? Thank you!

  16. Tammy from San Diego says

    Thank you for the reminder and the reassurances. I greatly appreciate that you took the time to say these things once again. I find the repetition soothing.

  17. Jacob says

    Your website, though full of wise financial guidelines, is absolutely painful to read from a personal computer. There are virtually no margins/padding on the left side, making all the words essentially hug the browser lines.

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